About This Archive  | DCHAS-L 2020 Index   | DCHAS-L Yearly Index
person wearing a disposable face shield and surgical style mask

Check out Safety Emporium for your N95, N99, and face shield needs.

Previous by Date:
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] water based paint seminar
Date: Friday, January 10, 2020 at 8:27:21 PM
Author: pzavon**At_Symbol_Here**ROCHESTER.RR.COM 		Next by Date:
None this year

Return to the 2020 Index

From: bchew82233 <000005dbd69f3537-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**LISTS.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Good idea or maybe not for SDSs
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 11:00:13 -0800
Reply-To: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Message-ID: 202001111902.00BJ2JZU020808**At_Symbol_Here**ppa04.princeton.edu
In-Reply-To <5e171a7f.1c69fb81.28dfd.9566**At_Symbol_Here**mx.google.com>


Hi Ben

In any setting, it is important to have a safety manual/CHP that covers spills that depends on size. It can be helpful to post a flow chart to cover the general hazards (acid/base, flammable, etc). Your TAs should at least be able to recognize the basic physical hazard), then size of spill (e.g., <100 mL, 100 ml to 1 liter, > 1 liter, or the 55 gallon waste drum). 

You can put in basic stuff like stop and evaluate the hazard, evacuate the immediate area, identify the chemical involved, and depending on the fumes or toxicity, determine the plan of action. 

Also, a size that triggers getting supervisors involved or pulling the fire alarm to evacuate the building (let's say the organic waste drum ruptured and you have 50 gallons of flammable waste all over the floor).

It won't cover every possibility, but maybe 90%, and then have an out that if there is a question, call the supervisor.

 In industry, there is basic HAZWOPER awareness training that covers this, but in many cases, that requirement depends on the waste generator classification. For instance, a contract analytical lab may have 20 employees, but if they are a CESQG, there is no required HAZWOPER training. It is just best practices to provide something. In a university environment, I would encourage the TAs be trained to some minimum level. Presumably the university as a while is going to be SQG or LQG, so there is likely a HAZWOPER team somewhere that can provide the awareness training. It should only take an hour or less. I remember TAing 30 years ago, and at best we got training on a fire extinguisher. 

I have worked in numerous industrial analytical chemistry labs, and in general, the volumes used daily in an industrial analytical lab are not much more than a student lab. Usually, it is the toxic stuff you have worry about rather than large quantities of acids or solvents getting out of hand


Ben C



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Friends for ever <bkgarebe**At_Symbol_Here**GMAIL.COM>
Date: 1/9/20 5:13 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Good idea or maybe not for SDSs

Hi Ben,

We write our own SOPs, which have a safety section. But, sadly, we write them after an incident!!!

Regards

BVK

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Yaritza Brinker
Sent: Thursday, 09 January 2020 12:25
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Good idea or maybe not for SDSs

 

Hi Ben,

 

May I bring your sulfuric acid scenario a bit more close to home?

 

Let's say it's a 100 mL beaker of sulfuric. Spilling said beaker inside the hood requires a straight forward spill response. However, if you were to trip while carrying it, the spill response procedure gets a bit more complicated.

 

Let's say it's a 4L bottle that falls on the floor. Knowing whether or not you need to evacuate the lab and come back in with a respirator will depend on the size of the room/the exhaust capability of the room. If you clean it yourself, do you have a kit that addresses a 4L acid spill?

 

Let's say you work at a university that has TAs teaching the undergrad lab courses by themselves. Think about the student who trips carrying 100mL of sulfuric and splashes 1 or more classmates. Is your well-meaning TA adequately trained to deal with the situation until help arrives? Is there anything posted in the lab to help your TA navigate the situation?

 

The SDS can't account for all scenarios nor levels of spill response training. We all should take the time to use the LCSS, SDS, Lessons Learned, and other information to write SOPs. I have also found it beneficial to include a safety section in my experiment procedures. While experienced staff members may find this section unnecessary and even patronizing, inexperienced staff tends to find it valuable for one simple reasonÉ they don't know what they're doing, yet.

 

Of course, all of your effort is futile without training. Nobody has the knowledge to appropriately respond to all the different hazmat scenarios without proper training. Even people with basic spill response training will make the mistake of walking thru the spill as they rush to lay down absorbent pads (witnessed).

 

As chemists, we might be eager to write an experiment procedure that teaches students how to create a chromatography column out of a 100mL burette. Unfortunately, we are not necessarily eager to write a procedure on what to do if your 4ft tall student accidentally tips the set-up while trying to pour solvent into the burette. I don't know if my prof had a written spill response SOP for that undergrad experiment, but I do recall he proactively approached my bubbly classmate to discretely offer her a step stool. Would your well-meaning TA have the foresight to offer a step stool or do you need to suggest it in an SOP?

 

SoÉ Santa's list it is. ;)

 

Thank you,

 

Yaritza Brinker

260.827.5402

 

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU> On Behalf Of Ben Ruekberg
Sent: Wednesday, January 8, 2020 11:57 AM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: [DCHAS-L] Good idea or maybe not for SDSs

 

** External Email **

Hello and Happy New Year,

 

Imperfect as they may be, we rely on SDSs for guidance in dealing with chemicals.

 

For student laboratories, problems arise that are different from industrial scale problems.  SDSs seem to be concerned with the industrial scale.  Take for examples, what to do in case of a spill.  Would it not be helpful if SDSs were to designate size-appropriate actions?  It seems to me that, generally speaking, spilling a milliliter of sulfuric acid should require a different response from that for the spill of a tank car full of sulfuric acid.  Well-meaning teaching assistants, who do not have instructions on what action to take depending on the size of a spill, will tend to act on the side of caution (we would hope) which may involve unnecessary expense and disruption.   Would there not seem to be practical value in an SDS saying something along the lines of "This amount is a small spill and you should do this, that amount is a medium spill and you should do that, more than this sized spill means you should evacuate and call 911!"?  Clearly, what constitutes the various categories of spill size differs from substance to substance, which is why the SDS would seem (to me) the appropriate place for this information.  There might even be the benefit of making some SDSs less scary. 

 

This might be asking a bit much from documents that say to wear appropriate gloves without saying which gloves are appropriate.  Should I just put this in my next letter to Santa?

 

Thank you very much,

 

Ben

--- For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the Divisional membership chair at membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org Follow us on Twitter **At_Symbol_Here**acsdchas




Electronic Transmission Confidentiality Notice

The information contained in this electronic transmission is private, confidential, the property of the sender, and intended for the use of the recipient(s), only. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this information for any purpose is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender, YBrinker**At_Symbol_Here**fele.com, immediately by e-mail and then delete this message. Thank you.
[FE.EN.1]

--- For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the Divisional membership chair at membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org Follow us on Twitter **At_Symbol_Here**acsdchas

 

Previous post   |  Top of Page  


The content of this page reflects the personal opinion(s) of the author(s) only, not the American Chemical Society, ILPI, Safety Emporium, or any other party. Use of any information on this page is at the reader's own risk. Unauthorized reproduction of these materials is prohibited. Send questions/comments about the archive to secretary@dchas.org.
The maintenance and hosting of the DCHAS-L archive is provided through the generous support of Safety Emporium.